The Jo Show · 7 January 2026
Episode 8: “Please fire me” — why one creative director walked away from agency life to build a bold, women-led business
What happens when you’re at the top of your game—but it no longer feels right?
For Sarah Campbell, the answer was clear: she asked her boss to fire her.
In this episode of The Jo Show, I sat down with Sarah—founder of Studio 3 Creative—to unpack what happens when you reject the old agency model, embrace strategic creativity, and start a business on your own terms.
And what a conversation it turned out to be.👇 Watch the full episode here:
From “please fire me” to 98% women-owned clients
Sarah’s story is far from typical.
After years working in Vancouver’s ad world—as a media buyer, copywriter, and creative director—she realized the traditional creative agency model was broken. Competitive. Fragmented. Fast-paced to the point of burnout.
And not a lot of joy.
Then came a life-changing discovery: a Canadian government program that supports self-employment… if you’re let go without cause.
So, she did what most wouldn’t dare—she asked to be fired.
That decision launched Studio 3 Creative, a strategy-led creative agency with a team of 12 contractors and a client roster that is now 98% women-owned businesses.
The hard lessons of year two
It wasn’t all smooth sailing.
In our chat, Sarah shares how they won an award for best home-based business in their first year… and then realized in year two that they were undercharging every client.
It was a financial gut-punch. But instead of folding, Sarah brought in experts—accountants, bookkeepers, advisors—and rebuilt the business model from the ground up.
That shift not only saved the business, it set the stage for explosive growth.
CEO retreats, vivid vision, and falling in love with the problem
One of the most actionable takeaways from this episode?
Sarah’s rally cry for every founder to take themselves on a CEO retreat.
No meetings. No inbox. Just strategy, reflection, and vision.
She combines that with principles from Vivid Vision by Cameron Herold to create clear direction for where she’s going—and encourages her clients to do the same.
We also talk about the power of falling in love with the problem, not the solution—a theme echoed by another recent guest, Paul Zellis.
Why AIO (AI optimization) is the new SEO
As AI continues to reshape how people search, Sarah believes the next major shift for small business marketing is AIO: optimizing your content to be surfaced by large language models like ChatGPT and Grok.
She breaks down how creative founders can:
- Start showing up in AI-generated recommendations
- Leverage human voice + AI tools for powerful hybrid content
- Future-proof their content marketing against the next big algorithm shift
And yes—she still believes you need human strategy, empathy, and creativity at the core of your marketing, no matter how good the tools get.
“I’m not done yet.”
This episode is packed with practical takeaways, hard-earned lessons, and honest insights.
If you’re a founder, marketer, or creative professional trying to build something that fits who you are—not just what the market expects—this one is a must-watch.
🎯 Key Topics Covered:
- How Sarah scaled a remote-first team post-COVID
- What most founders get wrong about content strategy
- Why she coaches female founders to build with confidence
- The metrics that matter (and the ones that don’t)
- How to turn failure into fuel when everything seems stacked against you
👉 Watch the full episode above and let me know: What part of Sarah’s journey resonated most with you?
Want Help Clarifying Your Vision?
At McKee Creative, we work with founders like you to bring bold ideas to life through strategy, marketing, and creative that converts.
Book a free strategy call to explore how we can help you double your revenue—without doubling your workload.
Transcript
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (00:03.502)
So hello, Sarah from Studio 3 Creative. Thank you very much for coming on the Jo Show today. I appreciate your time. just wanted to sort of, before we start into your story, if you were talking to a business owner about the next year ahead, what’s one message you’d like to give them right now?
That’s a good question about the year ahead. mean, all I can do is say what I’ve been saying to my clients, which is, if you’re not already doing it, take yourself on a CEO retreat. There’s been a lot of stuff going on over the last year, especially here in North America, like with the tariffs and with a lot of changes in policy, finances.
It’s been a rocky road for a lot of people with a lot of shifts and a lot of industries. And I think it’s really important that everyone takes a minute and appreciate how far you’ve come and actually give yourself the time to put like a strategy together, like a legit sit down, make it work business plan for 2026 and give yourself like the tasks and the things that you need to be doing and where you need to focus. yeah, just give yourself that time.
some appreciation and some forward thinking, a little time to play around with your vision. That’s been my advice and that’s probably still gonna be my advice moving forward.
That is fantastic. And I think it’s a fellow Canadian Cameron Herald. Would that be right? Who does the chief operating officer training? So he’s been talking to the COO in the company, the second in command. He’s written a book that’s very easy to digest. And I tell you, will take some time more than you think to implement, but worth doing called Vivid Vision. And what you’ve just said, if, if, if an owner takes themselves on a CEO retreat with Cameron’s book, Vivid Vision, which is not an affiliate link, it’s just brilliant.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (02:02.924)
I think you would come out transformed. So that is such a great piece of advice. Thank you. Excellent.
Thank you. Yeah, I’m gonna have to check out that book now.
Yes, do so. I’ll link it as well. I need to redo mine. I did one and I need to update it. That’s for sure. Before Studio 3, your business existed. What was happening in your world and what made you realize that you just had to start this business?
For sure. So I was in advertising for a long time, like pretty much straight out of school. Even while I was still in school, I was working in ad agencies in Vancouver. I started in media buying and planning, and then I went into copywriting and always kind of bounced between the two. And then I started freelancing. So I freelanced for about eight years. And then I got a full-time job as a creative director. And I was doing that for a while. And I got to kind of the end of that.
And I just, kept coming up for me over and over like this could be done differently. And so COVID hit, I had a lot of stuff happen in my personal life. And all of a sudden it was like, you know, why do we have to work this way? Why does the creative world agencies, why does it have to be so segmented? Why does it have to be so competitive? Why does it have to be so fast? Why does it have to be…
Sarah Campbell (03:24.896)
all of these different things and why do we have to be all chasing after like the Coca Colas of the world? And I was like, I don’t want to do that anymore. And if I’m going to be putting like 12 hour days in, I’d rather put them in for myself. And, you know, I want to be the one with the nice car and the nice condo by the water. So that was kind of my initial inspiration. And just from the nature of how I’d worked up to that point.
I had a lot of contacts and a lot of really cool creative people in all these different industries. And so I reached out to them and I was like, I wanna start a different kind of agency, one that’s really collaborative and focused on strategy, focused on like we come in and we create a plan and we actually help you figure out what to do with all of the cool creative stuff that we create. We’re not just making stuff to make you feel good.
or to get you excited, it’s like, we’re going to create that thing and then we’re going to use it and show you how to use it and show you what you can do with it and play with it and how you can get it out there to actually build your audience and build sales and get the side of the business you actually want. So yeah, really my start.
It’s a breath of fresh air. So if when you were beginning, did you have to take a big risk when you were starting out?
Yeah, so actually, I at the time, it was a very like, sudden decision. I hadn’t really been happy at where I was working for a while. And I was like, what am I going to do? I don’t know. I’m like, do I get another job? Do I do this? Do whatever. And then I was Googling one day and I saw that there was this program offered by the Canadian government. And it was like a self-employment program. And it was like, if you’re let go without cause, then you can
Sarah Campbell (05:17.112)
join this, you can apply to join this program and we’ll pay for your living expenses and to go get a certificate in entrepreneurship to build a business. And I was like, done. So I went to my boss and I was like, please fire me. And he was like, what? I was like, either quit in a today or you fire me in three weeks. And in the end he chose to fire me in three weeks and started my business.
Thank
Please fire me. I’ve often thought in Australia we should have some sort of training for business owners before they just read, you know, we can just register a business and go, you know, and it would be very helpful to have, as you say, a certificate in entrepreneurship. So I think that’s a great initiative too. It’s also a great initiative to go to your boss and say, please fire me.
I’m like, go to your boss and say, please fire me. mean, looking back, I’m like, I’m so glad that it worked the way it did. Because to get into the program, you had to like put a whole pitch together and a business plan and like show that you were serious about it. And it was like a bunch of people who are like went through and judged it. And if they felt like it was reasonable, and the financial productions were there, and you might be able to sustain yourself after a year, then you get the okay. But I was like, I already left my job. Like I already
I’m not making money. So it was just like go and hope that I could get it done. And that was actually this time of year a few years ago that I did.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (06:42.818)
I was right before coming
on the holidays and I was like, let’s go.
So as far as your few years in now with Studio 3, what did you imagine it would be or think that would happen with the business growth versus how it’s actually unfolding? Does it align with what you expected?
In some ways it does, like in our overall arcing, you know, by this year we wanted this much money coming in. Yes. In terms of everything else, no. Even like the track and the speed it came. The first year it was under, the second year was worse, and then our third year we tripled and it was just like things happening and all these different speeds and times and you’re just kind of like…
holding on for dear life and trying to adapt with the changes and make big shifts and pivots and kind of from where you thought you were going to start and the people you thought you were going to be working with to who you actually end up working with in the end and who your idea resonates with. When I first started the business, I was sure I was going to be working with more of who I had been working with. I was really specialized in working with manufacturing companies, alcohol brands,
Sarah Campbell (07:59.47)
and like construction, which is kind of a mix. And I was used to working with like older men and being like, this is why social media is important, like arguing them over to even trying it. so I was fully prepared to be like, I’m gonna go after construction guys and we’re gonna, and who ended up getting was women owned construction businesses. Interesting. So cool.
or women-owned manufacturing. And we were like, dope, let’s go. And then now like our entire client model, I think it’s 98 % owned by women. It’s like 51 % owners are female. And that’s so cool. It’s like getting to support other women entrepreneurs growing. And that’s such a passion of mine personally, that it was so cool to see it come out in the business. And we’re just,
It’s interesting that passion, the essence of who you are has flowed out into who you’re working with. And I’m very big on even episode one with Kim from Botanical Skincare Labs, we were talking about building a business that suits you in your own unique way and who you are, not some cookie cutter thing. And it’s so important for your business to go a long way. And again, here’s another example where that’s part of who you are. And it’s just naturally coming out into the concrete partnerships with your clients.
So that’s very interesting. Did you have any particular mentors, cheerleaders, champions who helped you through the early days of starting Studio 3?
Absolutely. So my family was hugely supportive, especially my parents. When I first ran into my first like financial difficulties, they were the ones who were like, hey, we’re going to bail you out once. Figure it out. And I’m like, okay, let’s go. My dad, was like every time I got a sale for the whole first year, he expected me to call him on the phone so he could like celebrate. there was a guy, he was like, that’s my girl. Like, go get that sale.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (10:02.126)
Well,
Sarah Campbell (10:06.51)
So great. then on the other side, the creatives I was working with were hugely impactful in helping me build how we were going to do this because there wasn’t really like a solid model. We didn’t want it to be like just people sort of contracting on. We wanted people to have a little bit of a stake in the company to participate. like the same graphic designer we worked with for the first two years was the one who created our logos and our entire brand vision.
our web developer also created the website and like our video guy created our reels. Like everyone was really participating and without all of those people supporting, like we wouldn’t have gotten as far as we got as quickly as we got. I also had a really cool business coach when I first got started, her name is Paula and she was really important on helping me have like an actual realistic vision of things and keeping me on the straight and narrow.
It’s good to have somebody to challenge you as well. Yeah. So you start wanting sometimes and on the days when you.
You know wrong and my coach is like everything’s wrong. I’m like. I find this spot in middle.
Exactly.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (11:18.67)
It’s lovely to have supportive parents. remember my mom was so supportive that I couldn’t look at her at an event because she’d be in the audience in tears. It’s like hilarious. So you do need somebody with a little bit more balance, you know, that’s fantastic where a business coach can come in. It’s very, very good. So every founder guaranteed we’re going to hit a wall, usually at high speed. What would you say is your toughest business moment to date and how did you get through that?
Toughest business moment to date. I mean, there’s so many different challenges that come up with running your own business and starting it from scratch and being a solo founder. I think that’s kind of a part of it too is like when you’re kind of the final buck stops with me, I make all the decisions. It can be overwhelming. And you also kind of become the only lever that you’re comfortable pulling when things get bad. There’s not like someone else to be like, hey,
let’s both put an extra 60 hours in this month. It’s like, I’m gonna do it. Yeah. So it’s always challenging for different things. In our second year was probably the most challenging. It was wild because it was like in our first year, we actually won an award for the best home-based business in the city we were living in. We got it from the chamber. It was so cool and exciting. Thank you. Yeah, it was so unexpected.
Congratulations.
Sarah Campbell (12:42.322)
So it was like such a high high, we had all of these clients. I thought we were like killing the numbers. And then I sat down with an accountant and I was like, okay, it’s time to like switch everything over to having an accountant write it for me. I suck at finances, but we must be killing it. We have 14 clients, we won this award, like we’re doing good work. Where are we at? And she looked at the books and she was like, you’ve been charging everyone completely wrong this whole time. You’ve actually been losing money on your clients.
You found out
Yeah, and it was like, and there’s no one else to blame. It was me, I made the decisions at end of the day and was basing a lot of my numbers off of my experience freelancing. And, you know, like you can guess and hope for things and build things and do your best and then still come up and be like, yeah, no, I brought in an expert and I did it wrong. So that sucked because it took a while to like, change everything and rebuild everything again. It was almost like
totally relaunching the business in year two, but it was worth it in the end because we got to climb out of that. I learned so much. We brought such great experts on. We have a bookkeeper and an accountant now and a financial advisor and more business coaches at different levels. And it ended up being really great because I think it gave me that experience to be able to then when I’m coaching or working with clients, be like, bring in the expert, like bootstrap it to the point, but bring in the expert.
That’s right. That’s right. And I often still find people who think that launching a business that works online, whether even if they have a retail store as well, is going to bring them immediate success. And yes, we can launch a paid campaign and bring the money in straight away. But for people to really respect your business and keep you top of mind, I still believe it takes at least a couple of years for them to think, yeah, I’ve been there a while. You know, just that feeling of trust from a customer point of view. So, and also.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (14:37.772)
Yes, you start out a bunch of enthusiasm and great teamwork and awards, but kind of growing up and becoming the adult in the room and having the proper systems is very reassuring once it’s done. You know, it’s very calming in a way because you have that machine that then you can continue to fine tune. So it’s very, very good. You’re right, bring in the experts as soon as you can. You need to know enough to know what to ask, don’t you?
bringing the people who know this stuff.
You also have to be comfortable with the people that you bring in where you can ask dumb questions. And like if you don’t, a lot of the times with the people, the experts that you bring in feel like you’re the one in the room who knows the least, then you didn’t bring in the right people. I want people where it’s like, I think I know the least in this room, I’m learning the most and I can ask them questions and they’re just gonna be like, hey, yeah, here’s the answer and move on.
And that’s the energy I’ve tried to bring to working with clients too is, you know, we come in, we expect that we’re the expert in the room and that we’re bringing you along on that journey with us. And that’s really important to us. And how we, handle client work is we want you to come on that journey with us. We want you to get what we’re doing. We don’t want it to be like, you know, wizard of Oz. go behind the curtain and come back and like, yeah, here’s a magical thing. promise you it’ll somehow get you this much money.
Mm.
Sarah Campbell (16:05.924)
something like that.
Yeah. Yeah. As, as marketers, we like to talk about strategy. It’s a word we throw around and obviously use day to day. Was there a moment where for your own business, your strategy failed? And if so, how did you deal with that?
Um, yeah, I mean, it’s always failing. I always say to everyone, I’m like, for your first few years, like your first few years of business, all your marketing is, failing.
Get comfortable with fairly.
Right? You’re like, I’m coming in with a bunch of assumptions and I have to prove them. And the only way to prove them is to do it and learn from it afterwards. So like all marketing is, is just kind of failing constantly and learning from it and optimizing so that you get to a good spot. You get to a good position. Like our initial part, my initial strategy going after the people that I had been working for, for so many years.
Sarah Campbell (17:07.166)
it was kind of a flop strategy. I mean, it might’ve worked if we’d put more time and energy in there, but from that kind of flop, we realized like the people that we’re getting attention from is this other audience and we need to completely just pivot our strategy and go after the women out there who want to be in a room with us. They want to be in that room. They want to be learning. They want to come along for the journey. They have that same value system and you know, they need support to get there and
we can be that support. So I think it’s like a combination of our own experiences and the fact that that initial strategy kind of flopped that got us to where we are now.
I think for me, my biggest strategy fail was I have for our own agency. had a very good Facebook lead generation campaign running booked calls for $68 a piece. Good conversions running beautifully. You know, you could just turn that sucker on and turn it off when you’re busy. Problem is we got busy and I turned it off and then my page was hacked and I joined that club. discovered there are so many used to be able to get support from me. Not anymore.
And in the end, I tried to regain that profile. can’t tell you how much money I spent testing. It just didn’t work. And I put the call out. was in a very amazing group of marketers and it turns out there are so many marketers running ads through their mother’s account because they’ve been in the same boat and just cannot get that damn profile back with permission to advertise. And we used to always say, never turn your funnel off, you know, and I turned my funnel off. So I’m.
kind of mad at myself. don’t know how that happened or why, but the timing was terrible. And it’s, it’s forced me to think more creatively about marketing my business because that was my like go-to. And so I guess that’s a good thing. It’s, you know, worked out well from that point of view, strategy when it fails and how you get around it for me, was never turn your funnel off.
Sarah Campbell (19:09.838)
such good advice and I’m like never have 30 backups in the in your meta account I literally just am going through this I was on a call with meta all morning so I’m like any listeners out there who have meta accounts never ever like be the only admin on your
No, and I did have others. It was just, I won’t go into the comedy of errors that happened. The staff were great. There’s no problem there. But what I, what I do mourn as a marketer is it used to be able to get on chat at night when something was wrong with the campaign and it would be fixed within an hour. And now you’ve just got bot support hell going on for months. And it’s just the most toxic thing.
So many like.
My first year in the media buying, was like you had a person you could call, like a business card. Like, hey Greg, like this is what’s going on and we have this buy going and get it fixed for ya and not the case anymore.
So anyway, I started fresh, canned my other profiles. I’ve started a new Instagram account and now it says, you’re not allowed to advertise. We’ve detected automated behavior. I’m going, what? So anyway, back to strategy that works not fails.
Sarah Campbell (20:14.545)
Excellent.
Sarah Campbell (20:21.24)
That’s a good deal.
So in a world obsessed with short-term metrics, how do get people to think a little bit further ahead to something that’s going to move the needle for the revenue of their business and not their ego?
That’s such a good question. A lot of it is and I’m like, I really have to read that book now. The Vivid Vision thing. I’m like, yes. Where do a lot of times when we talk to people, one of the questions that we start with is like, okay, your business, not just what you’re asking us to do right now, or the tactic that you came in thinking you need to do. A lot of times people come in, they’re like, I have to be on TikTok. I don’t know how put us on TikTok. And I’m like, I hate TikTok.
walk me through why you need to be on TikTok. And a lot of the times it’s like, well, because so and so that I know went viral on TikTok and like everyone’s on TikTok now, I keep hearing about TikTok. It’s kind of like a check on a checklist. And they’re like, well, so and so got this many views and this many likes and, that’s awesome, right? And I’m like, okay, well, how many sales did they get? How many conversions? How much of that showed up on their site? How much of that is people that you’re able to like, say, spend time with them and, is
like made an impact or if it is the brand lift, like are they measuring that? they putting something into it? Like what are they getting from that brand lift or the brand awareness is that the audience are looking for? And a lot of the times people are like, I don’t know. I’m like, well, it might not be the channel for you. It might not be where you should be.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (21:53.728)
It’s where your audience is. It’s where your people are. It’s again, the unique founder vibe. I’m actually interviewing tomorrow, Alison from AHL law who found their niche on TikTok, you know, and it’s just gone gangbusters for them. So that will be a case study and when it does work, you know, but exactly some people fit well there. Where are your audience? Where are they spending their time? What’s the energy of the business? Is it going to fit that vibe of that channel?
As you say, not just because somebody said someone got some likes.
But like, you know, what really actually fits with your brand vision, with your clients, with your audience, with your avatars, with your goal. It’s like, if I could wave a magic wand, what do you really want to come from this? What do you really want to be seeing in a year or three years? And like 90 % of the time it’s, sales, or this is our revenue goal, or we want to grow. And I’m like, okay, well, let’s start there and we’ll work back and be like, okay, this is where you want to grow to.
Let’s find the right platforms and the right things that we’re going to do to make it fit your capacity and make it fit your budget and do what we can to actually get you to where you want to go.
Excellent. What do you want? We would like some sales, you know. Okay, we’re your best customers right now. Let’s find more of those. Let’s start to shape the strategy around it.
Sarah Campbell (23:19.822)
Put me on a call with like one of your best clients and we’re gonna like stalk them afterwards get a really strong avatar built out and we’re gonna go after them like that’s
the gold. Yeah, I had one client, Tara. This is actually one of her silk shirts. If anyone’s keen, it’s tarasatoria.com. But it was the first time I’d ever run ads on Facebook that totally flopped. And it’s because we realized that her best customers were, I’m going to say men, she’s women who have come back to, but men who are building, when I say real estate, I mean, they build the hotels that they sell to Hilton.
know, or that sort of, they’re not on Facebook. Once we moved her whole budget to Google, things started to look up much better. Obviously integrating a holistic approach with email and stuff, but the primary paid channel was for her, not even Facebook, which is rare, but happens, you know? So yeah, where are your clients? Best clients?
And that whole thing where it’s failing, your first little bit is like you go out, you test and you’re like, yeah, no, they’re not on Facebook.
It was horrendous seeing a negative return on ad spin. was like, what? I’ve been doing this since 2017. That does not happen. If we ran a Valentine’s Day special, it would work, but you So, um, if you’re, you’ve built a remote first team, is that correct? Yep. Yes. Which is great. I’ve been working at home for ever and I love that everyone’s caught up. How did you find the right people? Um, what’s been the hardest point?
Sarah Campbell (24:36.526)
you
Sarah Campbell (24:52.747)
you
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (24:56.792)
with scaling that as a T.
It’s interesting. So Mike, think if you’d asked me last year, I would have like, we have no problem scaling. Like we’re doing great. We have so many people. And we do have so many awesome people. We have 12 contractors, myself and another full-time right now. And we’re working on our next full-time hire. And a lot of when I started was just contacts from freelancing. It was just after COVID and everyone was kind of fracturing.
A lot of the agencies here, people were like, I don’t want to go back to being in office. I don’t want to go back to 3 a.m. calls. Like, I’m going to go on my own. And a lot of people sort of split into this freelance world. But then they were like, freelancing kind of sucks sometimes. Like, you’re all by yourself. You have to do the sales process. You have to market yourself. You have to do all these things. There’s so much more.
that you have to do. And then a lot of those people, we would like take on part-time jobs or they’re working somewhere in freelancing on the side or people’s whole way of working was just getting really creative. And so I was like, well, let’s bring everybody together and like our agency will do the planning, will do the strategy, will do the client work, will do the sales, will do the marketing. And then you are the creative engine in the backend that gets to come and consult and be the expert on your specific niche, your area of work. And a lot of people were attracted
that because they’re like, that’s what I wanted to do. That was my motivation behind leaving the agency was I wanted to just focus all my time on motion graphics. I wanted to create cool motion graphics and have the freedom to do that and do it from home and do it from wherever. that was kind of the model and how we started. then we created the creative bench where it was like, if you just want to work with us,
Sarah Campbell (26:51.234)
send your portfolio, give us your stuff, we’ll give you a test, we’ll give you something to check out. Usually it’s something internal that we’re working on. And if it’s good, then we’ll keep you in mind for future projects, because we always go kind of to our trusted, have been working with us since the start group first, and then we bring in more. And as we have to expand, we have this like a bunch of people waiting, which has been great. And then, you know, like,
during this last year, more people are switching to regular work, it seems like, which is great. I’m like, do it, go. But now it’s like you have, most people are sort of working off the side of their desk, doing it as side hustles and side gigs and stuff. So it’s been harder because we have to have more people to make sure that we always have enough people, but.
That’s why the creative bench was invented then and we’re still staffing. We’ve never come up on a time now where we don’t have the people we need for a project. We’ve always been able to staff it. It’s just a matter of building our own reputation so that people want to work with us. They think, they do cool stuff. They do creative things. I could do the stuff I want to do there. I’m going to try and get on the bench and then see what happens.
It’s an interesting shift that you’re seeing with more people wanting to get that, I guess, security again of a full-time paycheck.
Yeah, it’s a measure of the world right now. Everything’s a little unstable. So people want a little bit more stability, little bit extra cash, a little bit. Yeah.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (28:26.318)
Yeah, there’s a lot of that aspect. Yeah, that’s right. It’s a big, big thing. So with coaching others, you coach solo entrepreneurs, small brands. It can be, I think as much about confidence as strategy. What have your clients taught you? I guess, as you see them gain confidence in the training that you’ve provided.
that’s such a good question. Everything. I’m like, you know, I run my business the way I do because of the clients that I get to coach. which sounds so weird, but, I love my coaching clients. They’re awesome. And I pretty much coach exclusively women entrepreneurs. And I found like over the years of doing it, like we all have the same
And I’m sure that expense extends past the women entrepreneur group, but it’s always that imposter syndrome. Is this a business? Is it big enough? Am I really a founder? Am I an entrepreneur? I must be the only one who can’t figure this out or understand this. It’s always like, I must be the only person ever who’s had this, right? And I’m like, just through coaching, I’m like, no, every single person who shows up.
has that exact problem. And it’s like being able to normalize it for them is so impactful because you’re like, I’m not alone in this. Like, there’s all those examples, there’s all these things. And if I’m just brave enough to ask and look and tell people that’s how I’m feeling, like they’re going to show up to support me. And on my end, I’m like, I get to see them doing that. And I’m like, normalizing it for myself and encouraging myself to do the same where I’m like, I’m to go out and I’m going to ask someone to explain.
X, Y, and Z to me, or I’m never going to think that I, you know, have it all figured out. I’m always going to want to ask it, bring more people in and it just gives you more confidence to be like, yeah, it’s okay. My specialty is marketing. My specialty is like building audiences and understanding them and growing strategy and building those things and building confidence for people. My specialty is not finance. My specialty is not law.
Sarah Campbell (30:46.254)
I need to bring specialists in for that. That’s just like, you know, like we’re starting to think like we project management. I’m a very type B person. And my first heart was a very type A project manager who is awesome. I’m like, coaching is I think what got me to that first heart. So was like, yeah, I’m just going to accept the fact that like, I suck at this. The management side of it is not my forte.
I need someone else to be like, here’s the deadlines, here’s the budget, here’s how all these pieces are coming together. And then I’m in there being like big picture creative. This is how it’s all really coming together.
So when you think about strategy for a small business, obviously there are a lot of moving parts. Like for me with my clients, I blend that paid and organic, so content and SEO with paid traffic, email marketing, you know, just to build that flywheel. But what would you say is a fundamental marketing idea that is overlooked by small businesses that you’re constantly having to take them over and sit them down and say, look at this one.
there’s two, would say that I, three, four, five, six, there’s so many. the first thing that popped into my head is, you were trying to communicate to your audience about what they need and what they want to ask, not what you think they need. Yes. There’s such a difference between being like, I’m writing my content, I’m creating my website based on the questions they’re actually asking me.
versus based on what I as the business owner want you to know about my business. And then it’s a shift that it’s like, once you can make that shift and kind of understand, it’s not about me, it’s about them. It’s about what they’re legitimately looking for. And my job is just to provide that for them. When that light bulb goes off, it’s, think one of the things that makes the biggest difference, because it allows them to be like, okay.
Sarah Campbell (32:53.314)
So the content should be like this. And then it even starts to trickle into sales or how you set up your system. Or a lot of the times people come at it from first the systems thinking and they’re like, this is what’s going to work best for us. This is the information we want internally. So I’m going to turn around and I’m going to be like, you have to provide us six pages on this form of information to get you started so that we can service you better. It’s like, as the client, I don’t want to do that. I don’t really care what you need internally.
have my own questions and I want those answered. If you can’t answer them for me, chat GPT will and I’ll go to your competitor or, you know, Google search or Instagram or I’m going to watch TikTok. Right. And I’m going to go elsewhere. So it’s like, if you’re not answering the questions, who is?
pressure. I love it.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (33:37.87)
I interviewed Paul Zell is the yesterday who works with social impact businesses and coaches. And he put it beautifully. He said, and he said it was his coach who taught him to fall in love with the problem and not the solution. when I, it’s, it’s, it’s the principle that we know, you know, what’s in it for me, right from your client’s point of view, the customer’s point of view, we all know this, but to fall in love with the problem rather than the solution means that you are constantly talking about the problem.
that your customers have and they’re going, yeah. So I thought that was very elegant way to put it. I feel like I need to plaster it on my whiteboard above my computer.
Like it’s gonna be a tattoo actually just right across.
Yeah. Yeah. Advertising much for small business owners, but yeah, you’ve put that very, very well. Just, not, not the system that suits the business, but what are the questions that the customers are asking? And if you don’t answer those questions, they’re going to go somewhere else for those answers. So step on it, you know? Yeah. If you could go back to your first year in business with the knowledge that you have now, is there anything that you would do differently?
You
Sarah Campbell (34:51.158)
I would have hired a count of day one.
Well, the accounts will be cheering, going,
would have been like, yeah, pass me out of it. Like, hey, like, I don’t know. I mean, it was a learning, was a good experience in the end. And like, would our business be the same? If we hadn’t gone through those moments? I don’t know. But that’s the one thing I’m like, yeah, I would have been like, hang the expense, I’ll eat beans and on toast for the first year if it means I can have a bookkeeper and a financial person like
telling me how to put these things together. So I’m like, I wonder where we would be if we’d made more money in that first year. hindsight’s 20-20, right?
Sarah Campbell (35:42.83)
Get the bookkeeper. Recognize your own needs, I guess. Recognize your own shortcomings early on and bring in the experts to help.
I’ll need to bring a bookkeeper on the show, I think, tie in nicely. I’ll put a referral link in. What’s the biggest content marketing myth that you fight day after day after day?
Be like, hey, so.
Sarah Campbell (36:15.31)
Mm-hmm. ChatGPT is the new content marketer. When I first started my business, it’s funny because it was like I started my business and then like right away, not very long after, was it a few? I don’t know. A little while later, ChatGPT appeared on the scene and everyone’s like, you just started a content business and this thing creates content and it’s awesome. And you’re going to go out of business. Like there’s no way you could compete with that. And I’m like, well, I’m not.
competing with it. This guy that I know who runs a new media art gallery, his name is Stephen O’Shea. And he said the thing that now I hear it all the time where he’s like, well, creatives are pioneers naturally, we have always been the ones who adapt to new technology first. We, know,
did the cave paintings when we figured out we could write or draw, we used that to tell stories. And all along the way, if you go back and you think about it, creatives are taking the new technology, adapting it and moving on to the next thing, using it to move faster and create better and develop more and understand it and like how you can use it in different ways and find different ways of doing things. And I was like, yeah, you’re so bright.
at the end of it, what we are is a creative agency and we’re a strategy agency and we’re here to teach people how to do things and AI can never build that same connection for people, that same confidence for people, that same humanness for people. All it can do is help us do our job faster. And I think that’s also something I want clients to recognize is like, AI isn’t gonna replace having a marketing team.
or having a strategist or having a specialist or an expert in your corner. It’s not there yet, maybe in a few years, but it’s not there yet. It’s not there yet where you can reliably say like everything AI says is spot on. Like the same way that you have it pull a contract together and then want to have a lawyer look at it. You might have it pull some content together and then have a writer look at it.
Sarah Campbell (38:36.406)
I think there’s using it smart and then there’s being like, this will write all of my social media and just automatically post it. And then that’ll be the same as if, you know, I had two people here in the office taking videos, creating a calendar and like putting out content. So.
It’s surprised me actually over the years. had somebody suggested me once that I should have a service for other agencies where they can get me to write their copy for their campaign. So we set it up just in order form and it did very, very well for a long time. And it surprises me that I still have agencies coming to me for copywriting in this age of AI. But what I’ve learned is that if you bring your five senses into what you’re writing, AI doesn’t have those senses yet.
you know, if it’s read about what that experience can be, then it can mimic it very, very well. But I think until people learn to prompt better and also in the meantime, remembering that we are biological life and biological consciousness, I’ll get into the debate about what consciousness is and whether they’re achieving it yet. Maybe, I don’t know. It’s kind of interesting and exciting.
But if we write thinking about our five senses, and if we take in our customers words, which AI doesn’t know about, then you have something that is unique and original. And I think people can sniff that out still, you know, quite easily. definitely just going to the part. Yeah. So definitely use the tools and they can be at times very, very good, but it is interesting that humans still.
to say.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (40:20.908)
sense the human touch and you know, we still want that. That’s for sure. So yeah, I definitely, I’m probably not alone in thinking that the people will be seeking out more of that human aspect in experiences and products and even courses, you know, when you think you don’t need to learn anything by a course anymore, I’m still, I I’m sort of surprised people still pay for courses. I personally, because you can learn anything for free.
Now, if you know the questions to ask, but I think people want the connection. they want somebody to hold them accountable. You can ask GPT to hold your accountable, but if you forget to go in the next day, it’s not going to come and tap you on the shoulder. Or is your coach is going to be WhatsApping you.
Yeah, like, and yeah, questioning someone who you like, I think, knowing how to interrogate chat GPT is such a skill now. And like, do I think of it when someone’s just like, lauding me with compliments to go back and be like, actually, could you now do the opposite and tell me what I did wrong? Like, they can kind of sandwich it, right? Like, I think it goes a little bit against the natural grain and
Yeah, put some holes in this, I give it now.
Sarah Campbell (41:32.398)
I think that’s part of why people still want to connect and have those community spaces. And if anything, I’m like, I think in a few years, as it keeps growing, there’s going to be more and more people who are kind of like pushing back and being like, I don’t want to read your AI stuff. It gets all sort of amalgamating into sounding the same. Like I want to read like your unique position on this or read about your unique voice or your like, what do you think about it? How let’s get in a room together and talk about it.
I think that’s going to happen more. And I’m kind of excited to see where things go. I’m like, think we’re going to be faster and content is going to be faster, but hopefully.
I definitely see two branches. There’ll be some who just go, nah, give it to me, baby. I just want that automation, get on with it. And then there will be others who, like people go to cafes where there’s no wifi allowed now and they, read books and it, you know, there are definitely people who are going to want that space. It’s feels analog and real and human. you’re right there. There’s a lot of money to be made both in us. if people are quick to, to deal with that.
And also I would suggest when people are doing their content marketing, their branding, just remember to use your, think about your five senses when you’re writing or your emotions, how you feel in a situation and draw that out. And I think it will really add the touch that people are looking for to connect with you. So yeah. What about making a sacrifice for your business? Obviously you did not have beans and toast in your first year with an accountant, but personally or professionally, you know, have you had to make sacrifices and how’s it.
Decision shaped your business.
Sarah Campbell (43:08.75)
Of course, yeah. I I think so much about starting a business is grinding. Even if it’s going really well, the better it goes, the more time it feels like I put into it and the more it’s like occupying your thoughts. And I think it’s anything that maybe it’s just me, but when I’m really passionate and excited about something and really like my values aligned and I can see the future, I can see where I want to go. It’s very easy to be like,
you know, I will do this or do that or do I really have to go hang out this weekend with my friends? I could just like use the whole weekend to work or whatever. So there’s like those little sacrifices. And last year I decided to move. Like, so I actually moved from my business because I started coaching. I started a partnership with Alberta Women Entrepreneurs.
which is a 30 year old organization here in Canada in Alberta, one of our provinces, which is like funded and it’s all about helping women entrepreneurs. And I was like, I want to be a part of that. And I want to be like boots on the ground able to service that. So I packed up everything and I like sold all my stuff and I moved to Alberta and my parents are here. So I like moved in with them and I was like, okay, like.
Mom, I’m home!
for the next like two years and just figure this stuff out and like that was a big sacrifice but it also didn’t feel like one because it was like I’m doing what I want to be doing but obviously there’s some personal sacrifice that comes with that but I would do it again.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (44:54.574)
Yeah. And being back with family, that’s a bonus too, isn’t it? we don’t get enough. Yeah, that’s really, really lovely. Okay. So with Studio 3, what would you say has been your biggest win in impact, but fulfillment for you as well so far? Cause we’ll say so far you are not done yet.
bonus and it’s lovely in a different way. Yeah.
Sarah Campbell (45:16.982)
I’m not done yet. I have too many visions of the future to be done yet. Biggest wins so far. I mean, there’s been lots of wins. There’s been stuff like awards and stuff that we’ve gotten or big clients or big shifts that way. What’s popping up for me is I had a coaching client on Friday and I was like, I was exhausted. did 60 something hours over like the last month and a bit of just coaching. And I was like,
this is my last coaching session before the holidays, like let’s get it done. I’m so excited. And I’m like talking to her and she was like, I just want to thank you because like working with you completely changed my perspective on how I’m running my business. And cause I had coached her like a few months before she left, she came back and then we were in this like new cycle. And she was like, it changed everything. And so I went back and I like tore all this stuff apart and I rebuilt it. And then this is where we’re at now. And
we doubled, like we doubled our sales. Like we haven’t had sales like this ever. And I’ve been doing this for 10 years. So she was like, me and my husband went out to celebrate like last night because this is the biggest month we’ve ever had. And like, she was like, and I just like, thank you. I couldn’t have done it if I hadn’t changed how I was approaching things. And I was like, that’s it. Like just those little things where you’re like.
You’re welcome. Like you did all the work. I was here, the fact that I was able to like guide a little bit or help you feel like you were empowered to make those decisions. Like that’s what I want. That’s the whole goal of what I’m doing. So that would probably be like the biggest success for me is when I get to have those stories and those experiences with people.
It’s extremely fulfilling when you know that the work you’ve done matters in such a concrete way for somebody. I think that’s just fantastic. know, when people talk about their why of building a business to me, providing for your family is the most, there’s nothing small about that. You know, I’m all up for moonshots and big world changing missions and all the stuff. But if you just want to run your business so that you’re providing for your family and you’re doing it, then that is a big step.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (47:32.012)
you know, an economy that is changing faster than you can finish your breakfast. So, so knowing that your work matters in that context where things are changing fast and you’ve been able to go in and give her the tools that she needs to have her biggest month ever and take her husband out and celebrate. Well done. It’s fantastic. A few quick takeaways just for people who are listening. What’s one straw, one small strategy.
that pays really big dividends for audience retention and conversion into that holy grail of sales.
What’s one small strategy?
strategy. I guess an outsized needle mover.
I mean, there are so many things that I’m like, depends on know your numbers. it’s such a small thing. but I’ve really found lately that’s so much of what I talk about is, okay, know what your conversion right is, know what your goal numbers are, know what it’s costing you for each person that you’re putting through so that you have the ability to make those quick.
Sarah Campbell (48:44.312)
financial decisions where you’re like, right now our CPC is, is, has actually dropped. but we’re still getting the traffic, like jump in, put more money into it. I’m comfortable putting that because I know what our return is going to be. I understand how the flow of information is. I know what’s happening or, I understand the value of making this small change on the website or shifting something or called action on my landing page, like, because I know my numbers and
It’s such a basic thing for a lot of marketing people, where you’re sort of raised on numbers and data and being able to look at something and say, yeah, this is my recommendation. But on the business owner side of things, taking the time to be able to understand the reports that people are giving you, to understand and have a set of numbers in the back of your head where you’re like, this is what my cost per lead is, this is what my cost per acquisition is.
this is what my margin is, this is what our targets are. Being able to know that enough to confidently say, yeah, make that shift, make that transition, do this thing is invaluable. It’s such a big thing that I think a lot of people sort of take for granted. They’re like, well, the experts got it. Take it and run. And I think, yeah, good experts got it. But there are people out there who…
don’t got it and pass off like they do got it. And there’s people out there who don’t got it and they know they don’t got it. there’s, and there’s, yes, you know, are really great know what they’re doing and would love to be able to involve you in that program because you’re going to have a different insight. You’re going to be able to say, yeah, in person in my bake shop this week, we saw this huge surge in this and like our value in the bake shop is different than our value for online orders. And
I know that we have to approach it differently and how we’re going to shape those things. And like, I want to know that when I’m helping you build out your strategy, I want to know that when we’re shifting where you want to put your ad spend or where you want to put your media or how you want to put things out there. I’m like, know your numbers, know what you can afford, know what you want to do. And it’s going to make all, making those little changes and those optimizations better.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (51:03.768)
Very important when you’re given a report as a business owner, actually take a little bit of time to read it. If you don’t know what a term means, ask the person who gave you the report. You can qualify that with chat GPT if you’re not sure, but no exactly what those numbers mean. it so that you can determine whether it’s which part of the flow needs to be strengthened, whether it’s the, the offer and the ad, whether it’s your website.
whether it’s your business costs, all that sort of thing. But there’s enough data there, even without paying for fancy software where you can make those decisions. And it’s very good advice. Well said, well said.
I was like, you said that better than I did.
What a metric that you see business owners worry about that you think doesn’t matter that much. Is there anything that pops into your mind?
likes. Even followers, honestly, on some platforms, people are like, I have this many followers, I have this, or I picked this influencer, because they got this many likes on one of their posts. And that’s what they want to charge me for is like, so I’m like, well, so is that a meaningful interaction? Is that with someone that you wanted, like,
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (51:56.846)
Yes! Say it louder for those in the back!
Sarah Campbell (52:23.064)
Did they take an action that you really wanted them to take? Like most of the time what you wanted them to do was buy something, go to your site, read something, engage, save the post. Like even if you’re looking at who’s bookmarking your post, that’s more meaningful to me or watching the whole video and retaining on there. Like that’s a more meaningful metric to me than someone liking it. A like is such a passing thing now. Likes.
Good point.
Like, okay, so you put out a post and you got two likes, but we saw a surge in traffic on your website. that’s, I’m going to put more content like that out there. And you might be like, oh, but we only ever get like one or two likes. I’m like, yeah, so you get like 400 traffic and like percent on the backend or whatever. that’s what we want.
And there could be all sorts of reasons that people don’t hit like, like if the material is a little bit controversial or they don’t want their friends to know they think a certain way about something, which a million subjects, you In fact, I did see a guy on X and he, he was ripping into his followers saying, I saw your bookmark that post. You know, but, again, thinking about the psychology of how people behave, you know, they’re going to like and share if they think it makes them look important or funny or.
interesting or, know, it’s our ego. That’s fine. If it’s a topic that maybe they don’t want to disclose that they’re interested in, they’re not going to hit like. Doesn’t mean they’re not interested. Same for negative comments and the way that we encourage our customers to interact with those negative comments, because there are always people watching on the sidelines to see how you handled that thing. And then suddenly have mad respect and we’ll go and buy your stuff because you handled somebody in the comments. Just take the engagement, go for it.
Sarah Campbell (54:06.222)
back really well. It’s so true. especially now, like, so many more of the programs that are out there, people are aware of the algorithms and things. And like, I don’t want more of this show up in my feed, or I do want more of this show up in my feed or Instagram. Now it’s like, you can see exactly that your friends like this. And that’s why you got it. And so you’re like, I don’t want my friends to know that that’s what I think is funny or doesn’t mean that I didn’t think
Yeah, sometimes that’s the case. Yeah. So that’s that’s a good point. Likes is something that probably should, shouldn’t worry about so much. shouldn’t be losing sleep over that sort of thing. It’s the metrics that actually bring the sales and are you doing that? If you had to tailor a 90 day plan, just say a business comes to you and they’re not growing. They’re pretty stressed. They’ve got maybe six months runway left or something. And you say, right, we’re to turn this around in 90 days. What are the first?
three strategic moves that you would make.
I think the first thing audit, I would audit their funnel. What is the funnel where people moving through, knowing the numbers. The first thing is always know the numbers, know what’s going on there and see if we can identify the blockage. A lot of the times what ends up happening is it’s either they have a strong funnel, but they can’t get enough people into it, in which case we’re like, okay.
let’s get you people, let’s make a short-term investment, let’s increase here, let’s potentially bring in ads, or they have people coming onto the site and they’re just not converting. And in that case, we’re looking for why, is it because they don’t have enough information, are they able to flow through the site comfortably? Are you presenting yourself in a way that really resonates? So the first thing would be like, show me all your numbers.
Sarah Campbell (55:59.008)
And I’d be like, let’s interrogate your audience. what, who are you trying to reach out to? And if it’s everyone, let’s shoot it, narrow it way, way down and pick you a niche to get started with. You know, cause I think there’s like a miscon, a misapprehension, my brain. I think there’s like a misapprehension or whatever that, a misunderstanding. I’ll go with that word. I can’t think of the word I want right now. That I,
by going broad, by targeting everyone, you’re gonna get everyone. What really ends up happening is you go up against these like huge goliaths over some of the things and you’re like, do you really wanna do that? Like, do you have their budget? Like I’ve spent for those budgets before, like I have media planned for Best Buy, like your tiny little electronics thing is not gonna compete with their multimillion dollar ad spend.
So it’s like, well, we have to find your audience, we have to find your niche and really narrow in. And those are usually the two kind of points that we start with and try to build it out for them and say like, okay, this is what we’re gonna start failing at right away. Learn from as fresh as possible and get you where you need to go. And it’ll feel better because, know, at least you’re sort of actively testing and doing what you need to do to move in that direction.
Seth Godin says to find the smallest possible audience which shocks all of us every time we go no I want to sell everybody right find the smallest possible audience and then you can move out from there it’s very exactly the one person
Find your one person. Magical unicorn. And then find their friends.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (57:44.906)
Once you’ve done it once, then it can be repeated. and it’s so much more, just able to get your head around that way too and get rid of the anxiety. It’s fantastic. when you look three to five years into the future for small business marketing, I’m going to say, forget three years, let’s say two. And the reason I’m going to go with two, obviously we know the pace of change is, feels like it’s doubling every day.
Okay.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (58:13.464)
but also Vivivision that we talked about earlier, Cameron, talks about two years and you’ll see why when you read the book. So let’s say two years into the future for small business marketing. What’s one emerging shift that you think entrepreneurs should prepare for right now when they do that CEO retreat that you’ve told us to do?
AIO, it’s being called a lot of different things now. It’s essentially SEO for AI. So how are you optimized for AI to find you? I just was in a really interesting sort of like think tank seminar last week and we were talking about AI and the shifts that we’re seeing. So much of AIO is SEO. It’s like SEO walks so AIO could run.
but the speed that it’s picking up on things, the speed LLMs develop, update, change, look for different things and the types of content that they’re looking for is so much broader and different that I think it gives, especially right now, small businesses, like quite an opportunity to make those kinds of small shifts on their sites really fast, whereas like a bigger Goliath might take more time and approval and legal and stuff to make things happen.
so it’s a chance suddenly for you to be like, I’m going to be all over Reddit with my content so that it gets picked up. I’m going to put in all the FAQs and put in like inject the code on my backend and do like a few things. Keep going with my SEO strategy, but do a few extra things or, with the idea of trying to be ready for AI so that, people are finding you that way. The shift, like people are still Googling. Don’t get me wrong. It’s, it’s Google all day, but.
AI people are now asking so much more conversational questions. They’re building so much trust with these platforms that it’s like, you got to make sure that you’re the one showing up. You’re the one providing the information. You’re the one who AI is referencing and sending people to. And I think that’s what we’re going to see just continue to develop in a whole bunch of different ways over the next few years.
Jo McKee I The Jo Show (01:00:15.406)
who
Sarah Campbell (01:00:26.998)
And I don’t think it’s going to look like it is now, even in six months, it’s going to be another way of doing it.
True. I’m seeing even very small businesses get sales. I’m sure you are too from GPT. You’ll see it in the Google analytics. You know, the sale was picked up there and obviously seeing clients faces light up when that happens is great. I did just put an episode out episode five with Zach Ali, who’s the general manager of finder.com in the US and talking exactly about this topic with some good ideas. So for anyone interested in that, have a little listen to what Zach says.
And I do think it’s probably the best topic to take yourself away on that CEO retreat that you’ve mentioned, Sarah. I love that you said that. Everything’s just moving so fast. You know, I think I want to take myself on a retreat now.
I’m always like, I’ll be your little Jiminy Cricket in the background.
I know I’m getting excited. What’s a closing challenge to anyone listening Sarah who is stuck between where they are and where they want to be?
Sarah Campbell (01:01:33.582)
closing challenge to those people. If you’re feeling stuck, reach out to the experts. Find someone smarter than you. And it doesn’t have to be smarter than you in everything and they’re this brilliant person, find someone who knows your problem, who knows what you’re going through, who has more experience in that area and learn from them. Ask them directly. It’s a hard thing for us to do as people, I think.
especially as business owners, feel like you have to know what’s going on all the time. yeah, find that person who’s smarter than you and ask them for help. I think the business community is like actually surprisingly welcoming, especially on the smaller level. And there will be someone out there who has gone through the exact same thing that you’re dealing with, who can give you a referral, give you the information, fix your books for you.
Breach out, go beyond the chat GPT and actually reach out to another person that knows a little something, something.
A sensible solution instead of rocking in the corner. like it. Ask somebody who can help you fix it. I love that. Sarah Campbell of Studio 3 Creative. Thank you for your time today. It’s been really great talking to you.
Go find a person.
Sarah Campbell (01:02:58.36)
Thank you, it’s been awesome